Our eBay store
My seller's profile at eBay (with all customer feedback)
Transcript of the live chat session that took place Thursday, January 13, 2000. These sessions are normally scheduled for 12 noon-1 PM US Eastern Time (GMT -5) every Thursday.
Since the chat itself happens at a rapid pace, it's often difficult to note interesting facts in particular URLs as they appear on-line. Here's a place to take a more leisurely look. I've rearranged some of the pieces to try to capture the various threads of discussion (which sometimes get lost in the rush of live chat).
Please send email with your follow-on questions and comments, and suggestions for topics we should focus on in future sessions. So long as the volume of email responses is manageable, I'll post the most pertinent ones here for all to see.
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Our online store at Yahoo
Our eBay
store
My seller's
profile at eBay (with all customer feedback)
Richard Seltzer -- We'll be starting in about five minutes. As you connect, please introduce yourselves and let us know your interests.
Dan Kalikow -- Hi -- I just want to stay up on this...
Richard Seltzer -- Welcome, Bob Supnik and Darnley Fritsch.
Bob Supnik -- This is Bob Supnik, VP of Engineering at FairMarket.
Bob Supnik -- FairMarket is an e-commerce services company. We provide 'private label' web sites, with a focus on dynamically priced transactions such as auctions and automatic markdowns. FairMarket uses its own software (AuctionPlace) to create a web site for a customer that reflects the customers' branding and web 'look and feel'. The auction web site integrates seamlessly with the main customer web site. In return, FairMarket is paid a service fee for hosting the web site, and transaction fees on business done on the web site.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- Do I understand you right that FairMarket does all the design work? In other words, the client simply links to their auction area?
Bob Supnik -- FairMarket provides an implementation service to help get the customer site up and running. We will do UI design and implementation, as well as integration with customer systems such as user registration.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- I'd expect that the business models and set up for person-to-person auctions (a la eBay) and for automatic markdowns would be quite different. With person-to-person, the transaction takes place offline with buyer contacting seller by email. With markdowns, I'd expect that you need to have transaction software, taking credit card info, etc. Is that the case? And do you also do all that for the client.
Bob Supnik -- Yes, business-to-consumer auctions are very different. For one thing, the seller is a known quantity - Dell or CompUSA have warranties, return policies, customer service numbers, and so on. This allows the buyer to provide sensitive information, such as credit cards, with the confidence that he or she is dealing with a reputable company.
Bob Supnik -- Another critical part of the business model is that we allow customer sites to network together. So a merchant, like Dell, can offer products not only on its own Dellauction sites, but through other major web sites, such as MSN, Lycos, and Excite.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- That ability for to offer products for sale over more than one auction site sounds interesting. I understand that MSN, Lycos, and Excite probably run their auctions eBay style (with ordinary people selling things to one another.) Is Dell set up to run that way? Or are they selling their computer gear directly to the public?
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- Do I understand you correctly that a company like Dell with markdown auctions can list its offerings through person-to-person auction sites like Excite?
Bob Supnik -- The network model allows a merchant, like Dell, to sell directly to the public on its own web site, and also through the web sites of FairMarket's portal partners. Typically, a merchant doesn't list items from other sites. The person-to-person auctions from the portal sites are carried across all the portal sites in the network.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- Are you major clients getting involved in auctions primarily for revenue or primarily for traffic? In other words, looking at other auction sites -- eBay goes for money (with service fees from every individual who posts or sells) while Yahoo charges no fees and just tries to attract additional traffic.
Bob Supnik -- Merchants are clearly doing auctions for the financial benefits. Online auctions allow merchants to deal sensibly with excess inventory, out of date equipment, returns, and refurbishments.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- Do all the person-to-person auction sites that you host run with the same basic business model? Or do some charge fees and others not?
Dan Kalikow -- Bob -- When the p2p auctions are carried across other portal sites, how do you reassure portal proprietors that their viewers won't click away? By making the cross-portal nature of the p2p auctions invisible?
Bob Supnik -- Portal (community) sites want traffic, but they also want to build a total shopping experience for their users. So auctions are part of an overall e-commerce portfolio intended to attract end users, small merchants, and frequent (power) sellers.
Bob Supnik -- The cross-portal nature is deeply buried. For example, every listing on MSN carries MSN branding on the page, even if it originated on a different site. Conversely, an MSN originated listing seen on Lycos looks like a Lycos listing.
Bob Supnik -- For example, compare the same listing as seen on
two different sites:
http://auctions.msn.com/Scripts/ListingInfo.asp?LotNo=6686348http://auctions.lycos.com/Scripts/ListingInfo.asp?LotNo=6686348
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- I understand that with markdown auctions, the aim is nothing other than to sell merchandise. But with person-to-person auctions (a la eBay), the auction site just acts as a go-between and the sellers and buyers are both ordinary individuals. Isn't that the case with auctions that you host? Or do I misunderstand?
Bob Supnik -- The nature of the auction site depends on who the seller is, rather than the type of transaction. If the seller is a merchant, then the auction site is in fact a store, with a variable pricing mechanism. If the seller is a person, the auction site is just acting as a broker.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- Do you make any stats about your hosted auctions public? I'd be very interested to know the number of users/members at the largest and also the number of individuals auctions that are typically available there. (eBay makes those kinds of numbers available on its home page.)
Bob Supnik -- I don't believe that we make usage statistics public, but the Excite site has the number of items currently in the various categories: http://auctions.excite.com/
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- I love the hosted auction model, and the diversity of auction Web sites that can result. But I'd think your challenge would be (or rather the challenge for your clients) to break through the perception that eBay is the one and only. It feels like there's a critical mass of users and items for sale that makes an auction site really interesting and attractive. Is there anything that FairMarket does to help bootstrap a new auction site and get the traffic coming?
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- Does FairMarket work with auction-seller-support sites like AuctionRover? I'd think that might be helpful in letting auction sellers know about the opportunities to sell at the auctions sites you host.
Bob Supnik -- We work with the auction seller sites that are based on search, such as AuctionMine and MySimon. At present, we're asking search robots not to search our sites, as they would end up searching essentially the same data for every customer (ie, more than 100 times!)
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- AuctionRover is more a seller information site. They provide advice and tools to help individuals and merchants sell more effectively through auctions. They are located in North Carolina. (I write a weekly column for them). Their main focus seems to be on eBay, Amazon, and Yahoo right now.
Bob Supnik -- I'll check on AuctionRover. We're always happy to help auction metasites and services, because they drive traffic to our customers. Unlike a destination site, FairMarket is not trying to build up its site traffic or its brand name.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- Another benefit that comes from doing things the way you do it would probably be the cross-company information you are able to gather. That should help you spread the learning and reduce the risk for new startups.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- It seems that you have many different customers who in various ways may both compete and cooperate with one another. Is there any constraint on who you take on as new customers? I mean do any of your current customers "own" a particular market segment, or have agreements with you that you won't work with outfits they consider to be direct competitors of theirs? Or is this a totally wide open marketplace?
Bob Supnik -- There are no 'restrictive covenants' that I know of. However, every site has control of its networking - whether it exports its listings to the network, and from which sites it imports listings. There are also category controls. So for example, ZDnet imports listings from the network, but only in the computer category.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- So ZDnet imports... Also, interesting. Another instance of how complex and intertwined both the business and technical relationships can be behind the scenes, while the auction buyer/seller sees a single simple easy-to-use site.
Darnley Fritsch -- There is one site already in place in Brazil and I know a few new attempts in Mexico and Miami to address the spanish speaking market. The Fair Market model seems ideal to allow "tropicalization", translation and local look and feel.
Bob Supnik -- Darnley is correct: the FairMarket model will allow for localization of look and feel.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- Do you have any non-US, non-English implementations yet?
Bob Supnik -- We have non-US English implementations, for Australia (GoFish) and the UK (FiredUp). We have no non-English sites at the present time.
Darnley Fritsch --
Well, I hope I will help bringing FairMarket to Latin America soon.
Bob Supnik -- Small companies can use FairMarket's service as well, through small web sites of their own, or through kiosks on one of the portal sites like MSN. With a kiosk, a small business can have a 'storefront', with branding, but without any of the administrative commitment of a standalone web site.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- the kiosk model sounds very interesting. Is MSN the only one of your clients operating that way? or are there others? And with that kiosk model, what kinds of costs does the kiosk owner incur? Is there a fixed service fee or is the price dependent on the activity or revenue generated?
Bob Supnik -- All community (portal) sites can and do support kiosks. The fee for a kiosk depends on the site but is significantly lower than the fee for a standalone site. As with a main site, there is both a basic hosting/service charge, and then transactional fees.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- Ballpark, if a small company wanted a kiosk, say at MSN, what might the costs run?
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- I'm tryin to get a sense of the low-end cost for setting up an auction site -- as a kiosk with one of your clients. I'm familiar with the dirt-cheap cost of setting up estores (like zShops at Amazon). What's the ballpark here? And is it a fixed cost or a percent of revenue model?
Bob Supnik -- A quick check on kiosks indicates that the portals are charging between $50 and $100/month. Further details will be on their auction sites.
Richard Seltzer -- Welcome, Lisa. Our guest today is Bob Supnik from FairMarket. They host branded auctions, meaning that they provide the hosting service that delivers such auction sites as MSN and Excite. (There are probably many more auction sites out there than you ever imagined.)
Lisa -- Bob - I work for a radio station and are in the research process of adding an auction to our station's site. Have you worked with radion stations before.
Richard Seltzer -- Lisa -- I'm curious. What's the focus of your radio station? (e.g., news, a particular type of music, talk, etc.) And where are you located? Do any of your competitors run auctions now? And would you be wanting to connect your listeners to one another for buying or selling? or would you be acting as a go-between for merchants to sell to the public?
Bob Supnik -- Lisa, we've worked with local public radio stations, and also with VH/1, to host special event auctions for them.
Lisa -- I work for a top 40 station in boston. NPR, although not a competitor, works with Acunet. Are you familar?
Bob Supnik -- For VH/1, we auctioned off prime tickets to Bruce Springsteen's recent concert tour, the proceeds going to charity.
Lisa -- I don't know what types of auction sites would be the most feasible. We have a lot of station/music merchandise. How did the VH1 site work?
Bob Supnik -- The VH1 site is http://auctions.vh1.com/
Bob Supnik -- Lisa, I'm not familiar with Acunet. FairMarket has worked with WBUR and WETA.
Richard Seltzer -- Lisa -- WBUR is with Acunet (in Marlboro). That's where my own site is hosted.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- You may remember Fernando Colon-Osorio, formerly a VP in high performance systems at Digital. He owns Acunet.
Bob Supnik -- Lisa, there's no requirement that a customer's main site be on the same network, or at the same ISP, as the auction site. MSN, Lycos, Excite, Dell - all our customers have their own datacenters and networks, yet their auctions, which we host, look and feel just like the main site.
Bob Supnik -- Not to insert a rudely commercial note, but, Lisa, would you like to have one of our salespeople call you, or send you an information packet?
Lisa -- Yes feel free to send info. I can be reached at 781-396-1430. Thanks
Bob Supnik -- I agree, Richard. Running a 7x24 e-commerce site is a taxing experience. 'Delayering' an e-commerce site, so that the auctions are done by the best in the business (FairMarket of course :), fixed price sales by another specialist, etc, allows the customer to focus on his/her real added value, rather than writing specialized software and running a complex IT operation.
Bob Fleischer -- Certainly search engines such as Northern Light and AltaVista provide customer-branded search modules.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- Yes, I think it's important for companies to realize that they can break up the pieces, that their choice of running their own server or having their basic site hosted, and where they are hosted doesn't close off the options. Different pieces of their business can be in different places, with different hosts. That also greatly speeds time-to-market, and reducing startup costs and risks.
Dan Kalikow-- and fits right in with the ASP megatrend...
Bob Fleischer -- I think it's just a part of the Application Service Provider trend -- do one (or a few things) but do them very well and do them in a way that looks as good (or better) to the user enterprise than if they had to do it themselves.
Bob Fleischer -- (Hi Dan, sorry for the collision -- we could start a sub-thread on whether ASP is a trend or a megatrend :-)
Bob Supnik -- Dan is right about the ASP megatrend. In fact, FairMarket uses an ASP (Navisite) to host its equipment and provide 7x24 operator coverage, although the unique nature of our application means we do our own systems administration. FairMarket provides 7x24 end user customer service, and 7x24 systems operation coverage. For example, FairMarket was up throughout the Y2K transition, unlike some other auction services I could name. :)
Richard Seltzer -- Bob and Dan -- Yes, that ASP thing (under other names) is something we used to speculate about back in the Internet Business Group (at Digital). But at that time, I expected that would be a direction for growth and vitality for ISPs. Now we are seeing more and more companies that just do hosting of one kind or another, without bothering with the hassles of dial-up and other forms of Internet access.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- that's interesting that there are several layers to this business, that FairMarket doing auction hosting uses an ASP to host its equipment.
Dan Kalikow -- ... focusing on core competencies ...
Bob Supnik -- Exactly - we'd rather focus on our core competence of running auction sites, and let another company worry about redundant power supplies, backup airconditioning, multihomed Internet acccess, and so on. (I know from the Palo Alto Internet Exchange that this is a full time task in its own right.)
Bob Supnik -- Very intertwined, but also clear - FairMarket is an infrastructure company, not a destination site. We can partner with or sell to anyone who needs variable priced e-commerce. We will work with anyone who has technology that makes the (site) customer or (end) customer experience better.
Richard Seltzer -- Dan -- yes, the core competencies thing, but also partnering like crazy, and building intricate and interesing business relationships to do what you want to do quickly, easily, and inexpensively. The definition of "company" has really changed. And it hasn't been replaced by "virtual companies" either (which imply entities that come together for a short period of time). Rather it feels like intertwining threads or like streams going through the same pipe. (not the right metaphor -- but more dynamic that "company" in any form). Also lots more dependencies.
Dan Kalikow -- Richard -- true. Partnering's necessary. Competence in a vacuum doesn't succeed.
Bob Supnik -- Intricate is a good word - for example, Microsoft is a customer of FairMarket (auctions.msn.com), a partner (supplying much of our technology), and an investor!
Richard Seltzer -- All -- we're getting near the end of the hour. If you have a question you've been meaning to ask, now is the time.
Richard Seltzer -- All -- before you depart, please post here your email and URL, so we can keep in touch (don't expect the software to capture it). Also, as usual, I'll post the edited transcript of this session in a few days. Check www.samizdat.com/chat.html Please send me email with your followup questions and comments seltzer@samizdat.com Also, please send your suggestions for future topics and guests.
Bob Supnik -- email: bsupnik@fairmarket.com url: www.fairmarket.com
Richard Seltzer -- Bob and everyone -- thanks very much for joining us. The hour is just about up. If you think of additonal things you'd like to say or ask, please send them to me by email and I'll try to include them with the transcript. seltzer@samizdat.com
Bob Supnik -- Thanks for the opportunity to be (virtually) here.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- great session. thanks again. and good luck to FairMarket.
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