Transcript of the live chat session that took place Thursday, September 23, 1999. These sessions are normally scheduled for 12 noon-1 PM Eastern Time every Thursday. Please note that the US is now on Daylight Savings Time. So in international terms, we are on at GMT -4.
For an article based on this discussion, see www.samizdat.com/speed.html
To connect to the chat room, go to www.samizdat.com/chat-intro.html
Since the chat itself happens at a rapid pace, it's often difficult to note interesting facts in particular URLs as they appear on-line. Here's a place to take a more leisurely look. I've rearranged some of the pieces to try to capture the various threads of discussion (which sometimes get lost in the rush of live chat).
Please send email with your follow-on questions and comments, and suggestions for topics we should focus on in future sessions. So long as the volume of email responses is manageable, I'll post the most pertinent ones here for all to see.
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Bill Dubie bill.dubie@compaq.com (Home Page) in Massachusetts
Bob Fleischer (Home Page) in New Hampshire
Berthold Langer BertholdL (Home Page) in Massachusetts
Meng in Puerto Rico
Peter in San Diego
Dave Sciuto davesciuto in Boston
Richard Seltzer (Home Page) in Boston
Bob Zwick Bob@CottageMicro.Com (Home Page) in Texas
Richard Seltzer -- We'll be starting in about 45 minutes -- at noon US Eastern Time, GMT -4. Today's topic will be Business Opportunities Opened by High Speed Access.
Richard Seltzer -- Welcome, all. We're about to start. Please introduce yourselves and let us know your interests. Today we want to talk about business opportunities related to wide-spread availability of high speed Internet access -- which is coming very quickly.
davesciuto -- I'm back...and this time it's personal..Dave Sciuto from The Computer Report... a radio show broadcast from Lowell, MA.
Bill Dubie -- Hi, folks. Bill Dubie here, from The Computer Report, too.
BertholdL -- Hi Richard, Hi Dave, It's been awhile since I last joined. Hope everything is well.
Richard Seltzer -- Welcome, Berthold. Glad you make it. Are you still with AVID and hence a video guru :-)
davesciuto -- Hello Berthold! Hope all is well with you!
Richard Seltzer -- FYI -- if you like, you can see my smiling face on webcam by going to http://www.samizdat.com/cam/popuplink.html [no longer online]
BertholdL -- Video guru, I wish. ;-) Right now you are the video guru, since I don't even have a camera. What are you having for lunch?
Richard Seltzer -- Berthold -- I'm having vegetable beef soup and a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Great stuff. And you can see it all, nearly live...
Bill Dubie -- I'm having my bacon cheeseburger in relative anonymity....
davesciuto -- I'm wearing Chicken Stry-fry..which is why I was out of the office for a few minutes!
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Hi all Bob Zwick, independent networking consultant. Interest in high speed access for Servers in the home office.
Richard Seltzer -- Welcome, Peter and Meng. Please introduce yourselves and let us know your interests. Meng, from your email address it looks like you are in Puerto Rico.
Peter -- Hi all, this is my first time to join your chat.
Peter -- I am in San Diego, and
help smaller smaller companies sell or acquire goods overseas.
Meng -- Hello. Is now the
time for the chat today?
Richard Seltzer -- Yes, Meng, we're here. Please join in. Let us know who you are and tell us about your interests.
Richard Seltzer -- Meng -- Set your refresh rate to 0 -- that's just above "view occupants" and click on new messages whenever you want to see what's new. Otherwise the automatic refresh will get in the way of your typing messages.
Meng -- Sorry last message is sent by mistake. I'm a student studying Management of technology and now planning to write thesis about internet--the applications of it in business.
Richard Seltzer -- Meng -- welcome. Do you have specific questions you hope to find answers for today?
Meng -- No. I just came to see what are being discussed--to get some ideas for my thesis. So maybe most of the time I only listen to your talking.
anthony alvarez -- Hi Richard!, sorry I am late.
davesciuto -- We've thought about selling the audio portion of the show, but our real aim is to get The Computer Report on as many stations as possible. Currently, it's on three, but two are very shakey
davesciuto -- Part of the whole RealAudio thing is to, of course, have good quality recording... Our radio station doesn't have DAT recording, so that's a problem with quality.
BertholdL -- Dave, you are right, we have not even begun to max the audio quality on the net and people are trying to rush into video. I understand that video is more compelling but it needs much more investment at all levels.
Richard Seltzer -- Dave -- I understand your desire to syndicate your radio program to traditional radio stations. But I understand that there are a number of Internet-only radio stations and even networks, in additions to stations and shows that archive material on the Internet. Have you considered syndicating to one of more of those stations or even starting your own Internet station?
davesciuto -- I've contacted a couple of them via email and pointed them to our website, but I haven't heard back from any of them. We're willing to give the show to certain radio stations in specific markets...
Bill Dubie -- broadcast.com originally wanted $2K/month to carry our show!
Richard Seltzer -- Bill -- interesting stat about broadcast.com It's hard to imagine how a small operation could make enough revenue (and how?) to afford that.
davesciuto -- Yes, especially since our monthly ad rate is almost one tenth a month of what they wanted.
BertholdL -- Dave, Richard: That means that the content is not just worth something to the audience but the provider as well, mainly because even in a business to business case the storage and bandwidth when outsourced is extremely expensive. That is where ISPs right now make a killing. The $2k that Dave mentioned is just the beginning.
davesciuto -- As I'm typing, I'm listening to Bill's favorite radio show: Rush Limbaugh...
Bill Dubie -- Yeah, Rush is my favorite show like Reagan was my favorite president.;-) Richard, yes, Broadcast.com even called us to link up with them. Needless to say, we couldn't do it.
Bill Dubie -- Even TalkAmerica charges less than $2K/month.
davesciuto -- Bill's right. Sponsors,of course, are everything to us, and 99% of them want you to be on several stations, number 1, and cheap...
davesciuto -- The frustration comes from being early to party. We're standing around with party hats and punch, and no one else is there to celebrate. Audio on the Web still isn't the major source of the radio industry.
Richard Seltzer -- Dave -- Yes, this is early. But the party should really get going over the next year. So while it would have been foolish to make major investments back in early 1995 when we first saw RealAudio, the time seems right to get ready for a launch next year.
davesciuto -- Our fledgling business, Scryber (it takes a long time for an ostrich to mature, is all about content publishing. We have plenty of content to sell... the radio show, the newspaper column...
Bill Dubie -- Richard, things seem to be more ad-supported; however, TalkAmerica, a syndicate for talk shows based in Canton, has been doing this for years. We hope to be subversive and offer our show directly to stations.
"Background" opportunities would related to basic elements of human nature. For instance, we're used to saying that a picture is worth a thousand words. Up until now that simply hasn't been true on the Internet, because of the delay times and the disk storage space required. I've been saying that a picture has to be worth at least 10,000 words to be worth posting at a Web site. High speed access changes that equation. Video and audio become very effective ways to communicate over the Internet.
BertholdL -- Richard, are you thinking mainly of low bandwidth audo/video or toward broadcast type b-to-b qualtity?
Richard Seltzer -- Background-style business opps might help in monitoring and managing at-home workers.
BertholdL -- Uh, I have visions of Big Brother watching me. I am supposed to work on the report in my office but I am in the kitchen making lunch. No one realized that I am working the other time from 8pm to midnight.
BertholdL -- I would not buy into the monitoring aspect. And even less if the bandwidth has to come out of my pocket. Free Internet Access for everyone, sponsored by your employer.
Richard Seltzer -- Berthold -- I also would not like to be monitored by my boss. But I am sure that there are bosses who are very insecure about work-at-home, and don't know how to manage by performance, who would gladly sign up for such a service, and there are probably companies that would use many more work-at-home workers if they had such a management mechanism available.
BertholdL -- Richard, I agree, but in our work environments, don't you think that we should think about the privacy issues before we launch yet another internet industry, remote monitoring?
Richard Seltzer -- Berthold -- remote monitoring is already there: security services, even daycare centers are using Web cams. With high speed access the image becomes clearer and the range of what can be seen becomes greater. Given that as a base, if it can be done it will be done. Imagine a webcam on your car, embedded somewhere. Someone steals the car (bypasses the ignition or breaks in) and the webcam clicks on -- you and/or the police or security company sees who's in the car, what's happening, even where the car is...
Richard Seltzer -- Some of these apps -- like the car one -- are dependent on high-speed wireless access. But that too is coming, just not as quickly. We'll be talking about it next Thursday.
anthony alvarez -- can U share with us a URL of a webcam enabled daycare center. I think that is a very interesting application.
Bob Fleischer -- The webcam security device doesn't necessarily have to be high-speed -- we caught a nighttime thief in our facility when one person with a webcam set it to record a still every 10 seconds.
BertholdL -- Anthony: I have a co-worker, her daughter went to Gymnastic Camp this summer in Canada. The camp had 10+ cameras around the camp and she could regularly see her kid perform or have fun. It was neat but far from putting one in my own home.
BertholdL -- Hi Bob, we did the same thing here. Had a Quickcam near the candy bar and amazingly the pay rate went up. Figures.
Richard Seltzer -- For monitoring, the fact that you know the camera is on affects your behavior even if no one is watching the output.
anthony alvarez -- BTW, is the URL to the to Gymnastic Camp available anywhere? Please advise. I think Webcam technology really facilitates video conferencing and it will become a more popular application as time marches on.
Richard Seltzer -- Some apps, as mentioned, don't require high bandwidth, but when the speed is available new opportunities arise. Today's RealVideo over dialup line provides a small image moving jerkily. At some point the image becomes clear enough and the motion smooth enough that it looks natural and inspires the same kind of trust that comes from looking someone in the eye. (Reminds me of Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash -- where the breakthrough in virtual reality is reaching the point where you can reliably read the expressions on the other person's face.)
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- WebCam is a draw especially for some of the local events that get broadcast.
Richard Seltzer -- Another example of "background" -- We say that seeing is believing. Now you can see me online -- and not just an old studio picture -- rather a candid webcam shot. Do you now believe me? Webcam, videophone style applications -- blended with the delivery of information over the Web -- can probably add an element of credibility and trust to your message. Bob -- have you found that to be the case with what you do?
Peter -- Your picture does add credibility. But this is no near TV quality or high speed we are talking about?
Richard Seltzer -- Peter -- No, my webcam is no where near TV quality. It is set up to refresh every 3-5 seconds. It's a good kludge for today's Internet where most people connect by dialup modem. With the spread of cable and DSL access, that will soon change. And the coming of an audience that takes high-speed for granted is where the opportunities lie.
anthony alvarez -- Richard, your Netcam us working fine, I can see U
Richard Seltzer -- By the way, the java applet showing my picture (thanks to Anthony Alvarez, who just joined us), would avoid any such limitations. You are seeing a still image, refreshed every few seconds; and need no special setup or software to view it.
anthony alvarez -- The webcam I have developed uses very little bandwidth since it isn't really live at all, but an imaged refreshed every 5 seconds.
Peter -- Richard, correct, I receive your webcam picture just fine.
anthony alvarez -- Richard, your webcam image is still a little too over exposed. Just my $0.02.
Richard Seltzer -- Berthold -- we chatted about DSL and cable last week. and it doesn't seem all that expensive today. I can't get cable, because that's not available in my part of Boston. But I can get DSL from Acunet for $79/month. And with DSL I won't need a second phone line, which means I'll save about $50/month. That means my net cost for increasing my speed ten fold is $29/month. Not bad. (see www.samizdat.com/chat110.html)
BertholdL -- Richard, I guess I have to move. I would gladly pay the $79. BTW, is that for a 128k or better link?
davesciuto -- I live out in the boonies...no cable, not close enough for DSL, not even, dare I say, ISDN
anthony alvarez -- Dave in your area what are the options for internet users who want high speed access?
Richard Seltzer -- Peter -- I gather that policies at cable companies vary widely. Around here that isn't an issue. I believe the policies depend in part on how heated the local competition is. Webcam-style video is very attractive, and customers will gravitate to those services that enable it rather than disallow it.
davesciuto -- We found that storage was much cheaper than mirroring and caching large amounts of data.
Richard Seltzer -- Berthold -- the cost of storage is going down, way down. You buy an ordinary PC today, and it comes with about 10 gigs. Also, devices that store video on hard disk are just now appearing at almost reasonable prices as digital replacements for VCRs.
davesciuto -- The company we were dealing with is Digital Island. Do you know them?
BertholdL -- Richard, I understand that the price for your personal storage goes down but are the ISPs willing to let you store say 200MB - 2GB on their servers for a decent fee?
davesciuto -- Anthony: for large amounts of storage at an ISP, wouldn't it be cheaper to co-locate?
BertholdL -- The models we are currently looking at would need 500GB+ of online 128Kb real streams just to begin. A, there are not many ISPs that would be able to do 1000 different real streams at the same time and B, there are not that many ISPs that will give you 0.5TB in there data center.
davesciuto -- Berthold: You're right. They don't have that bandwidth. But a company like Digital Island might. And we'll need the bandwidth to match if we deliver over the net.
anthony alvarez -- Yes, it would be cheaper to co-locate. Many ISP charge $1 per Megabyte of storage. These days a lot of ISP accounts already come with high disk quotas though.
BertholdL -- Dave, we just started to talk to ISPs, top tier, most of them do not want to co-locate anymore. They feel that they can not provide the quality of service that the customer expects if they do not have control over the equipment decisions.
davesciuto -- I understand no. The radio industry does the same thing (almost) with ads and promos. Delivered to stations.
Richard Seltzer -- Berthold -- by "models" do you mean models for delivering the equivalent of a full-length movie? There are many interesting things that can be done in video that are far shorter than that and take up far less storage. (On the other hand, I would not be surprised if in 2-3 years new PCs came with 100-500 gigs.)
Richard Seltzer -- Berthold -- would it be possible to devise a shared disk storage scheme? i.e., an ISP hosts a multi-media application, but the files themselves reside on the customer's machines which are connected with reasonably high speed lines to the ISP.
BertholdL -- Richard, yes one can devise a shared disk scheme, but how do you know the right media sits closest to the customer?
Richard Seltzer -- Berthold -- I'm just thinking that the business models for delivery of video are likely to change. Today, the ISP has farms of disks, and you are basically renting space on the ISPs disks. With disk storage becoming very inexpensive to buy, I'd think it might make sense for the content provider to have his own disks, which are linked to the ISP where the application lies and which has fast access to the Internet. Just a thought...
BertholdL -- Richard, what I am talking about it b-to-b application in the media space. Ad-agencies use predominamtly pre-shot and edited footage. These clips are 10-30 seconds, like a clip art lib. Think of 10th of thousands of clips available to search and preview. The preview version would be lower quality but once you decide you want to highest quality available. And, you do not want to wait for the FEDEX person to deliver the tape. You want it right away over the net.
anthony alvarez -- Has Real Video been recieved well for those types of video B to B applications?
BertholdL -- Anthony, it depends what the purpose is. If I can let you preview the footage in low-res before you commit the space on the news that night then it is well worth it.
BertholdL -- I am currently in a project to evaluate high-end video distribution concepts. I mean lots of storage, and lots of bandwidth, potentially. I am most intersted in how people deal with caching and mirroring of such data in a dynamic web envrionment.
davesciuto -- Berthold: At Progress, the plan is to outsource worldwide caching and mirroring to a company that has server farms throughout the world. Expensive but necessary.
Bill Dubie -- bill.dubie@compaq.com; http://www.thereport.com
davesciuto -- The Computer Report Sundays 980AM WCAP Lowell/Boston 7-8:30am
BertholdL -- Berthold Langer berthold_langer@avid.comwww.avid.comwww.softimage.comwww.digidesign.com Richard, let's follow-up on this discussion some time. The ISPs right now are moving in a different direction for B-to-B then for "personal" web space. See you soon.
anthony alvarez -- Thank you. Great chat session, see U next week! If anyone would like to have a netcam (like Richards), please contact me personally.
Previous transcripts and schedule of upcoming chats -- www.samizdat.com/chat.html
To connect to the chat room, go to www.samizdat.com/chat-intro.html
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